Food for Thought

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12-30-2014, 12:48 AM
Post: #1
Food for Thought
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I've had this conversation with a few different detectorists, and we've all been in agreement...

Once Minelab introduced the FBS technology, it literally opened an entirely new world, a new window, in terms of finds. Let me elaborate...

Guys from the 60's till about the early 90's did a pretty good job of cleaning out the first 5 or 6" of finds. This was about the max depth of machines of that time, and even if they could've went a bit deeper, the VDI info was nowhere near as reliable as it is today, so, many finds beyond about the 6" mark weren't gotten. Then...

That generation of hunters either passed away, or, simply gave up the hobby, or maybe couldn't pursue it anymore due to advanced age, etc. Fast forward to...

A new generation of hunters entering the hobby in the mid 90's, coupled with the aforementioned FBS technology, and it was almost like virgin ground all over again. Now, guys had the ability to go down 10, 12" to find coins and relics. It was another heyday for treasure hunters. Look on the forums, look on Youtube, notice what's still being pulled out of old pounded parks, woods, and so forth. Although I feel much of this success is due to Minelab & the Fisher platforms (CZ's, F75's, T2's, etc.), all of the brands really had a hand in it. Yet...

What to do now? Pretty soon, there will be just the crumbs left from this second 6" window (12" total); what cannot be heard due to masking, shitty signals most of us wouldn't dig, etc.

One solution of course, is to find new spots. However, this is getting more difficult with every passing day, due to; development, more & more hunting grounds being prohibited, new competition entering the hobby, etc. Sooo...

That leaves us with really only one solution...opening up another depth window.

Is this even feasible though? I mean, most significant depth breakthroughs have seem to come along every 10 to 15 years, in terms of detector technology. How in the world are they going to be able to get us down another 6" within the foreseeable future?! Further, even if they could, what park hunter, school hunter or private yard hunter is going to be able to dig 18" down??? That's crazy.

We all know there's ALWAYS more, however, it's a point of diminishing returns at a certain point. Who wants to hunt for 10 hours to find one silver dime? Just like it's very difficult to find a silver or old coin in the first 6" nowadays, soon it will be like that with the second 6" strata. Then what?

What do you guys think???

Joe

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12-30-2014, 09:44 AM
Post: #2
RE: Food for Thought
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Ummm...no offense,but fbs wasnt the breakthrough,bbs was.  The sovereign. Dont think its a pure depth issue either...its that incredible disc..the tones at depth that you cant count on. Think about it...the old whites 5900/6000/bluen grey where probably just as deep in certain soils as maybe a Nautalous...but bbs and then fbs could handle bad ground and properly i.d. at extreme depths.

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12-30-2014, 03:03 PM
Post: #3
RE: Food for Thought
(This post was last modified: 12-30-2014 10:07 PM by NjNyDigger.)
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(12-30-2014 09:44 AM)deathray Wrote:  Ummm...no offense,but fbs wasnt the breakthrough,bbs was.  The sovereign. Dont think its a pure depth issue either...its that incredible disc..the tones at depth that you cant count on. Think about it...the old whites 5900/6000/bluen grey where probably just as deep in certain soils as maybe a Nautalous...but bbs and then fbs could handle bad ground and properly i.d. at extreme depths.

I used to hunt with a couple of guys years ago that detected with the Blue & Grey, and I don't know about your ground, but I can tell you that they had BIG problems getting more than 5 or 6" in depth.

I agree with you that depth isn't the only concern, it's depth PLUS accurate VDI, however, the VDI info means nothing without depth. If you gave me a detector with amazing VDI info akin to a Minelab (or even better) yet it could only go 6 or 7", at least at the places I hunt, it's worthless. I rarely detect in heavy iron areas, where the importance is on speed, separation & VDI. I need the ability to go down 10, 12, 14".

My ultimate point, Ray, was, in a sense, these great detectors (Minelabs, F75's, T2's, etc.) are a blessing & a curse at the same time. Again, they opened up an entirely new depth window for a new generation of detectorists, but, because the machines themselves are so great, that second 6" depth strata is being depleted further with each passing day. Just like it's virtually impossible for me to find any old coins in the first 6", there will soon come a day where that second 6" window has very little left, too. Which brings me right back to...

Can manufacturers open up another 4 to 6" window within say, 5 years? Of course, a PI machine could do this, but, unless one has fairly clean hunting spots, this wouldn't be optimal, as one would have to go through too much trash.

Can anyone see any of the manufacturers coming out with a machine that can get a solid 16 to 18" of depth COUPLED with rock solid VDI anytime soon? At least for the type of hunting & the spots I hit, it would be like a new beginning. You guys have seen my videos. If I have to dig 8 to 10" for a Merc or barber, having another few inches could mean a swing of 50 or 100 years in terms of the age of finds.

Joe

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12-30-2014, 04:56 PM
Post: #4
RE: Food for Thought
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I agree about the first 6 inches as far as parks in general are concerned and the timeline you reference. The second six inches I think is coupled with the development and use of bigger coils too. Right now all the top end machines have some pretty big coils available which are hard to deny as to depth capability when you're running full power to sensitivity. And they eat battery power too. In EMF noiseless areas they are a hard to beat combo. But, on the other hand to get greater depth, say in the category you're thinking of Joe, you have to have a machine that has a much stronger radio wave emanation from the coil and much finer software to discern the signal. And then there's discrimination and masking to deal with. This is I'm certain a tough problem for the EE's that develop our machines. If you could get 16" with an 11" coil with pretty high confidence on a dime sized target, that would be unbelievable. I would guess that the next best option would be ground penetrating radar that was toned down so much that it wouldn't make the continual user sterile and would have the discern-ability to properly ID targets. I'm sure those EE's are working on the problem because if they don't find some real answers a lot of the ground/depth we cover today will be lost to simple over detecting in the long run. And hitting a brick wall on the detecting potential of their machines could be the ax that ends company sales and the longevity of their business. So if they want to be in the running they have to design better and more useful machines with some new or totally refurbished technology.

History always repeats itself.

Ed

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12-30-2014, 08:45 PM
Post: #5
RE: Food for Thought
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Oh I think you will see something like that. I can get 3 to 4 feet with my GPX 4800 but not much for discrimination, Great for fields and woods.
I Hope so but I don't think they want us digging 18 inches in parks and peoples yards

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12-30-2014, 09:00 PM
Post: #6
RE: Food for Thought
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(12-30-2014 08:45 PM)Steveo Wrote:  Oh I think you will see something like that. I can get 3 to 4 feet with my GPX 4800 but not much for discrimination, Great for fields and woods.
I Hope so but I don't think they want us digging 18 inches in parks and peoples yards

Was that a typo, Steve, or do you really mean THREE OR FOUR F-E-E-T?!?! That's crazzzzzzzzzzzy!!!!!

Joe

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12-30-2014, 09:15 PM
Post: #7
RE: Food for Thought
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(12-30-2014 09:00 PM)NjNyDigger Wrote:  
(12-30-2014 08:45 PM)Steveo Wrote:  Oh I think you will see something like that. I can get 3 to 4 feet with my GPX 4800 but not much for discrimination, Great for fields and woods.
I Hope so but I don't think they want us digging 18 inches in parks and peoples yards

Was that a typo, Steve, or do you really mean THREE OR FOUR F-E-E-T?!?! That's crazzzzzzzzzzzy!!!!!

Joe

Oh yeah Joe! A lot of machines can see that deep. But it's a real crap shoot as to what you get for the dig. That's where the software hasn't caught up to the detectware.

MineLab SE Pro w/11" Pro, 12x10 SEF, 8x6 SEF, Explorer 1000
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12-30-2014, 09:24 PM
Post: #8
RE: Food for Thought
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Oh yea 3 to 4 feet or more depending on what you are looking for not a coin I have found copper float size of half dollar down the total length of my arm, and trash pits and huts down 4 ft all you do is listen for a quite signal and dig it gets loader as you go. When I go civil war detecting sometimes I do not get much for finds as I pass the load surface signals at the last div I dug three fire pits down 3 ft and nothing but ash, nails, glass and ration cans. I have but trash pit with Whites TDI down 3ft for just a pocket knife using the same technique marked the spot with a rock and came back later in the day when things slowed down and dug 6 whole  bottles and a ink well out of the same hole. Deep diggin is fun but sometimes a lot of work for not much

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12-30-2014, 09:29 PM
Post: #9
RE: Food for Thought
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(12-30-2014 09:24 PM)Steveo Wrote:  Oh yea 3 to 4 feet or more depending on what you are looking for not a coin I have found copper float size of half dollar down the total length of my arm, and trash pits and huts down 4 ft all you do is listen for a quite signal and dig it gets loader as you go. When I go civil war detecting sometimes I do not get much for finds as I pass the load surface signals at the last div I dug three fire pits down 3 ft and nothing but ash, nails, glass and ration cans. I have but trash pit with Whites TDI down 3ft for just a pocket knife using the same technique marked the spot with a rock and came back later in the day when things slowed down and dug 6 whole  bottles and a ink well out of the same hole. Deep diggin is fun but sometimes a lot of work for not much

That is nuts!!! I know they sell those big honking things with laptops that I always see in the treasure rags, but I didn't think a regular detector can get down that far on smaller items. I mean, if there's a Chevy or something like that buried at 4 feet, totally understandable, but to hit on smaller to mid sized objects at that depth is unreal!!!

Joe

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12-30-2014, 09:53 PM
Post: #10
RE: Food for Thought
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Everyone has bias' to their own type of detecting I suppose. Depth is not the issue to the people who don't have access to ancient sites or where the geology just doesn't allow for a rapid sink rate.
If you had two guys walk into a detector manufacturer with sure fire ways to get 6" more depth or the ability to disc gold from aluminum , I guarantee the fellow with the depth idea would be sent walking first if the manufacturer could only keep one.
Depth is really the easy half of the equation , just like recovery speed , and it keeps the relic hunters happy but they operate on a modified beep and dig philosophy. If the next generation is a concern you need to think in terms in disc and discovery , or you can just practice a find and leave strategy like that dope on Tom's site suggested. Happy

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