New Unit Opinion

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07-09-2015, 07:31 PM
Post: #1
New Unit Opinion
(This post was last modified: 07-09-2015 07:34 PM by NjNyDigger.)
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Over the years, I've seen a lot of hype when it comes to new brands and models of detectors. Most of the time, the performance doesn't live up to the hype. Which brings me to an observation...

Why is it, that when someone is using a new machine, and they take it out for their initial test runs, the MACHINE always gets the credit if the new unit found something in a place they've hunted before with other units? I've been somewhat guilty of believing this before myself.

"I've hunted this place with 83 other machines, and the Metal Sucker 2000 found a bunch of stuff that every other detector missed!" Or a million other statements like this.

I get it, different operating frequencies respond to different metals in different ways. However...

Outside of this, are there not WAY too many other variables involved to automatically assume the machine found it? For instance...

1. When using a new unit, one tends to be more excited/motivated, and usually ends up digging up not only more targets, but more targets that fall outside of their preferred range. Maybe a coin guy will dig more nickel signals, a relic guy will dig more coin signals, etc.

2. Maybe there were ground variances when operating the different units, like soil being more moist, dry, mineralized, grass was longer/shorter, etc.

3. Maybe the user was listening more intently, and therefore noticing better signals.

4. How about the most obvious, the possibility that the user simply didn't swing the coil over the target with previous machines, or didn't hit the target at the right angle, etc.

I could take an Ace 250 tomorrow to all of my spots I've hunted with the F75, Omega, MXT, CZ, Safari, etc., and might find an old coin, ring, relic or some other fantastic piece, but was it really due to the machine?

What say you? Is it indeed the unit, the operator, the ground conditions, or maybe a combo of all 3?

I lean towards it being much more the operator and the conditions versus the machine, but I'm not a scientist obviously, and could very well be wrong. Just my own personal experiences, and gut. I also believe a lot of it has to due with the "placebo effect", too.

When someone invests their hard earned cash in a new unit, they want it to work very well, to help justify the purchase, so, they'll almost will themselves a find. They'll hunt longer, smarter & more aggressively with said new unit, probably leading to more finds, and a greater assortment of finds, with the new unit ultimately receiving all of the credit/glory.

What's the deal?

Joe

NjNyDigger, proud to be a member of Treasure Classifieds Forum since 2013.

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07-09-2015, 07:52 PM
Post: #2
RE: New Unit Opinion
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I believe it is mostly what you said with the exception of if the said target find was found at a dept that is far deeper than anything found with prior machine.

biggredd1972, proud to be a member of Treasure Classifieds Forum since Jul 2013. Proud to be using a White's DFX with sunrayDX1 inline probe.Newly added in Jan/2015 White's V3I.
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07-09-2015, 07:56 PM
Post: #3
RE: New Unit Opinion
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(07-09-2015 07:52 PM)biggredd1972 Wrote:  I believe it is mostly what you said with the exception of if the said target find was found at a dept that is far deeper than anything found with prior machine.

100% agree, I thought about that after I posted, and outside of that, I cannot really see any other reason to automatically assume it was the machine.

Joe

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07-09-2015, 09:28 PM
Post: #4
RE: New Unit Opinion
(This post was last modified: 07-09-2015 09:29 PM by Kajunman.)
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Interesting thoughts Joe. Where I live we have a little metal detector store. The guy that owns it has been detecting for many, many years. He is also in my club. He's forgotten more about detectors than most people will ever know in a lifetime. He has those jewelry display cases like you see in a mall. They are full of relics , jewelry and collectibles.

I truly believe , he , with an ACE 350 could out hunt most other hunters with more expensive machines. If you just sit and listen to the guy talk you learn so much. The problem is most folk don't want to put in the time he has. Every sound means something to him.

On the other hand there are hunters in my club who set their machine to high silver and run all over a demo lot and leave in 10 minutes , when they don't find any silver. But that one guy who wins hunter of the month almost every month is the guy who admits he digs almost everything. But he has more silver , rings and cool collectibles than anyone else.

My order looks something like this.

Operator
Dedication
Machine

I have 3 best friends. Their names are Ace 350 , AT Pro ,  and a Fisher F 75 but I like people too.
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07-09-2015, 10:21 PM
Post: #5
RE: New Unit Opinion
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From my own personal experience I can't agree. Different machines, different coils= different results. Just recently I had a big wow moment. I was detecting a small area that I know I have hit thoroughly with more than one machine. I thought I would try the TDI there. I dug an old lipstick and a boy scout neck slide. They were not real deep and they are big targets. They hit loud and clear. How did I miss those before and how did everyone else miss them too? Machine capabilities.

PittsburghWill, proud to be a member of Treasure Classifieds Forum since Jul 2013.
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07-09-2015, 10:30 PM
Post: #6
RE: New Unit Opinion
(This post was last modified: 07-09-2015 10:32 PM by NjNyDigger.)
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(07-09-2015 10:21 PM)PittsburghWill Wrote:  From my own personal experience I can't agree. Different machines, different coils= different results. Just recently I had a big wow moment. I was detecting a small area that I know I have hit thoroughly with more than one machine. I thought I would try the TDI there. I dug an old lipstick and a boy scout neck slide. They were not real deep and they are big targets. They hit loud and clear. How did I miss those before and how did everyone else miss them too? Machine capabilities.

I don't think any one of us can say for sure either way, Will. Unless it's a tiny area, smaller than 5X5 or something, there's simply too many variables involved in a larger spot. Maybe you hit them from different angles, enabling you to hear it with the new unit, maybe you missed it the previous times, maybe the soil was wetter, giving a smoother more "dig me" type of signal, or...

Maybe it was the different machine, indeed. My own personal opinion though, is that it's normally a factor outside of the machine, with the exception of pure depth. Everything else aside from depth is debatable.

Joe

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07-09-2015, 11:35 PM
Post: #7
RE: New Unit Opinion
(This post was last modified: 07-09-2015 11:36 PM by Bigtony.)
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"placebo effect" is too funny and I bet it does happen.

In the past when I used a new machine I didn't make a big score for quite sometime but that is me - a long learning curve for sure. I feel it is because I am a coin shooter at heart - quarters are my friends........always have been and always will -
Some folks could care less about coins and only look for silver or jewelry - in these instances the operator is more determine then I am at finding an old coin.

I made an effort this past spring to change my way of thinking and have done well concentrating on deep or silver coins.
So, I believe it is possible that some folks can adept faster to a new machine then most.

Now are they better for you? Jury is still out on that one - it's buyer beware - there are plenty of very good salesman out there and will sell anything to make a buck.

Only my opinion....please I am not a guru on detecting - just like it a lot

Bigtony, member of Treasure Classifieds Forum since Jan 2015.
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07-10-2015, 09:11 AM
Post: #8
RE: New Unit Opinion
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My thoughts are if you don't get your coil over your not going to find it. I have been over spots that I know I've dug all the good targets out of then go back a week or two later and find a goodie. It may be due to the moisture changing in the ground or maybe a big ole night crawler helped move it off edge to a flatter position! Who knows? Maybe more gravitational pull of the moon?

88junior, proud to be a member of Treasure Classifieds Forum since Jun 2014.
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07-10-2015, 04:43 PM
Post: #9
RE: New Unit Opinion
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88junor - yeah coil over the target is 90% - deciding to dig is the other 10%.

A take off on the great Yogi Berra quote, please excused me for that one!

Bigtony, member of Treasure Classifieds Forum since Jan 2015.
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07-10-2015, 07:13 PM
Post: #10
RE: New Unit Opinion
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(07-10-2015 04:43 PM)Bigtony Wrote:  88junor - yeah coil over the target is 90% - deciding to dig is the other 10%.

A take off on the great Yogi Berra quote, please excused me for that one!

90% swinging and the other half is digging Happy Tony , ya had to love Yogi. American Icon for sure.

I have 3 best friends. Their names are Ace 350 , AT Pro ,  and a Fisher F 75 but I like people too.
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