shot down again

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11-18-2016, 08:27 PM
Post: #1
shot down again
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There is a small fishing lake near me in the remote northern part of our county. It was built in the 50's by the Department of Game and Fisheries. The lengthy rules of use there say nothing about metal detectors, but other DGIF management areas specifically prohibit detectors, so I sent an e-mail asking if coin hunting in the picnic and concession area would be permitted.
 This is their answer: use of metal detectors at dgif lakes2 messages
From:
Pete Schula (DGIF)
 
 
10:27 AM
 
After consulting with our regional law enforcement office concerning your question, the prohibition would apply to lands owned by DGIF, which includes Lake Conner.
Thank you for your inquiry,
Pete Schula
Virginia Dept. of Game and Inland Fisheries
Lands & Facilities Manager, Region 2

There are no archeological resources on the site. It's just a flattened hill top and hill side that provides access to the lake. You can do just about any kind of outdoor activity there except detect, and detecting done right would have less impact on the area than all the other activities. Go figure. Thought I might have a chance to get some silver from all the old picnic sites. Doesn't really seem fair.

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11-18-2016, 08:38 PM
Post: #2
RE: shot down again
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If no signs I would of went until I was asked to leave just play alittle dumb.

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11-18-2016, 09:18 PM
Post: #3
RE: shot down again
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(11-18-2016 08:38 PM)Cladjunky Wrote:  If no signs I would of went until I was asked to leave just play alittle dumb.

BINGO!!! Yes If there's no obvious signage posted, I almost always start detecting. Believe it or not...

In most of those places, detecting is allowed, so no issues, but there are a few places where it's borderline, or even not permitted (though I didn't know it at the time). And had I asked permission in the beginning, I'm almost positive I would've been given a "No".

My hand on the bible, and my hunting partner Gerry will back me up on this, Shade...

I have asked people in the past (against my better judgement), and many of those people told me quite honestly that they didn't know the rules, but gave me a no anyways. To cover their backs.

From my experience, 95% of cops & city/government employee's could give 2 craps about someone metal detecting in public space.

Unless there is an ordinance, against detecting or digging, which is actively enforced, you're good to go.

The rules in my neck of the woods are very muddy. There's places that say no metal detecting, but guy's have been hunting them for years. There's places that have no rules against anything, or are very vague, but are known for kicking detectorists out at first sight.

As a general rule, like CJ said, if there's any doubt if hunting is allowed, and if it isn't glaringly obvious, take a shot.

Fill in your holes & keep to yourself. As long as you do that, you will not have an issue at most places, even if detecting is in the gray zone. That's been my experience anyways.

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11-18-2016, 10:02 PM
Post: #4
RE: shot down again
(This post was last modified: 11-18-2016 10:06 PM by Ohio Dirt Fisher.)
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Well that sucks! I haven't had the quinones to take on a no sign rule. I do all the investigation and ask questions first. Primarily because I don't like to be hassled. Because it pisses me off. I really don't like being pissed off. I like to be stealthy and well within the parameters of the law/rules. But in retrospect, it's part of the Ethics rules of our hobby. "Get permission first.". That way I can confidently and politely tell the LEO or anyone else to piss off in my own little subtle yet devastating way. Testing waters was never my fancy. Knowing the rules and following them has always been my forte'. It may sound a little off, but IMHO, why waste the time getting hassled and kicked out when you can be at other sites where there is no problem. Just to prove a point or find out? So you did the correct thing Shade. Better to know beforehand than to be disappointed, or worse, later. You know "Criminal Trespass" is a pretty serious offence. Some Barney Fife out there could just be itching to apprehend a criminal because he may surely be dumb enough to do it, in the case of our hobby. And I've met a lot of Barney Fife's in my lifetime. To those guys, it's just a job to be done, and a feather in "their" cap.

Ed

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11-18-2016, 10:33 PM
Post: #5
RE: shot down again
(This post was last modified: 11-18-2016 10:38 PM by Zachbl92.)
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Public land + no sign = I'd go on it and detect, be neat and all that jazz. Worst that will happen is someone will tell you that you have to leave. Which is unlikely, most of the times. But I've only been to a park.......ONCE! So yeah. If it clearly doesn't state no disturbing the ground or no detecting or nothing on the website for the area...it's game on in my opinion. Either way, sorry how it turned up. It indeed makes no sense.
Wildlife management areas, for hunters...aren't technically allowed 365 days out of the year to detect. Even with no hunting. They stopped issuing cards and brought archeologist into the matter and they say all the ground is "historical". Technically, I guess it is. All ground is old. But either way, just bullshit so you can't detect and less things for them to worry about.
If you'd like, I can try and find some older houses or farmland for you. Just send me a pm with your address and I'll try and come up with some locations you can knock that are private property.

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11-19-2016, 12:04 AM
Post: #6
RE: shot down again
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Screw 'em
Set up one of these and detect , then move , do a 100 square feet at a time
http://www.llbean.com/llb/shop/67106?fea...tId=988413

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11-19-2016, 01:52 AM
Post: #7
RE: shot down again
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(11-18-2016 10:33 PM)Zachbl92 Wrote:  Public land + no sign = I'd go on it and detect, be neat and all that jazz. Worst that will happen is someone will tell you that you have to leave. Which is unlikely, most of the times. But I've only been to a park.......ONCE! So yeah. If it clearly doesn't state no disturbing the ground or no detecting or nothing on the website for the area

I've been told that they can not only arrest you, they can also confiscate your equipment  and your vehicle. I saw a guy who got caught deer hunting out of season. It cost him his brand new rifle and his new Jeep. Try explaining that one to your wife and lender!

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11-19-2016, 11:55 AM
Post: #8
RE: shot down again
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(11-19-2016 01:52 AM)Dirty Hands. Wrote:  
(11-18-2016 10:33 PM)Zachbl92 Wrote:  Public land + no sign = I'd go on it and detect, be neat and all that jazz. Worst that will happen is someone will tell you that you have to leave. Which is unlikely, most of the times. But I've only been to a park.......ONCE! So yeah. If it clearly doesn't state no disturbing the ground or no detecting or nothing on the website for the area

I've been told that they can not only arrest you, they can also confiscate your equipment  and your vehicle. I saw a guy who got caught deer hunting out of season. It cost him his brand new rifle and his new Jeep. Try explaining that one to your wife and lender!

Well deer hunting out of season is obviously understood. He knew what he was doing was clearly wrong. There is no set time for detecting or finding a old coin permit.
Now if there's a park, that is public property and has no signs against destroying the lawn or metal detecting or anything that could relate. It's fair game. If a cop wants to be a ass hat and arrest me take my shit and take my car when there's no clear signs of violatation....then someone is getting sued. It's the equalivance of a group of teenagers using a piece of the field to play football. Cleats or no cleats, whatever. Proper dug plugs in that area compared to a group of friends playing football, probably littering...I'd say the detectorist will be cleaner and take the trash away.
Yes you can call. But even on the grounds 99% of the time you are LEGALLY allowed to detect. They will say no. Even though by law, it's legal. But that's most public places in new jersey. States and counties are all different.
No signs, public land in NJ is fair game. But like I said, I don't hunt parks. I get permission from private field owners.

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11-19-2016, 06:02 PM
Post: #9
RE: shot down again
(This post was last modified: 11-19-2016 06:04 PM by NjNyDigger.)
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(11-19-2016 01:52 AM)Dirty Hands. Wrote:  
(11-18-2016 10:33 PM)Zachbl92 Wrote:  Public land + no sign = I'd go on it and detect, be neat and all that jazz. Worst that will happen is someone will tell you that you have to leave. Which is unlikely, most of the times. But I've only been to a park.......ONCE! So yeah. If it clearly doesn't state no disturbing the ground or no detecting or nothing on the website for the area

I've been told that they can not only arrest you, they can also confiscate your equipment  and your vehicle. I saw a guy who got caught deer hunting out of season. It cost him his brand new rifle and his new Jeep. Try explaining that one to your wife and lender!

The likelihood of that happening would be slim to none. Extremely.

If we go back to the start of the thread, Clad Junky simply suggested that if no obvious signs are posted stating that metal detecting is prohibited, take a shot and hunt it. What’s wrong with that? Why assume that it ISN’T allowed, versus the opposite? In the vast majority of public places, metal detecting is permitted. Unless it is somewhere CLEARLY off-limits, like; national parks, cemeteries, historic landmarks, etc., where you KNOW metal detecting is frowned upon, if no signage is posted, why ask anyone, and give them a chance to shoot you down?

If it turns out that the place does indeed prohibit detecting, and you’re approached by a cop or ranger, politely ask if there’s an ordinance against either metal detecting and/or digging, and if there is, can they furnish you with the ordinance #. If they do, you’re clearly in the wrong, and you should leave. Period. If this is what transpires, unless one is a habitual offender at the same spot, they’ll simply tell you it isn’t allowed, and ask you to leave. The odds of them confiscating your gear, much less your vehicle, is highly unlikely.

The bonus of doing it this way is…

As is the case here in NY/NJ, there are indeed some places that have ordinances against detecting or digging. However, they aren’t enforced. Why? Because the higher up’s are sensible, and have better things to worry about than some guy looking for loose change in the dirt. Much like jaywalking, the law has more serious things to worry about. BUT…

If there IS an ordinance, and it ISN'T enforced, by you asking for permission, you’re opening up a can of worms. It’s just like walking up to a cop and asking them; “Officer, if I jaywalk across the street, is that okay?” Unless he’s an idiot, he’s going to cover his ass and say no. Because you asked. But chances are, if he SAW you jaywalking, I’m pretty sure you’d be left alone, as it’s such an antiquated, minor violation, most cops wouldn’t even waste the time.

This is a controversial subject, and opinions will vary. I can only speak to my experience, and that is…

Asking permission will lose you more spots than you will gain.

Again, this is specifically for PARKS OR OTHER PUBLIC SPACES. Private properties and other such places are completely different, and you NEED to have permission. But for parks and similar spots, the one’s we pay taxes to help build and clean? If there’s no sign, I hunt without asking a soul, with ZERO reservations Yes

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11-19-2016, 08:31 PM
Post: #10
RE: shot down again
(This post was last modified: 11-19-2016 08:32 PM by Cladjunky.)
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(11-18-2016 10:02 PM)Ohio Dirt Fisher Wrote:  Well that sucks! I haven't had the quinones to take on a no sign rule. I do all the investigation and ask questions first. Primarily because I don't like to be hassled. Because it pisses me off. I really don't like being pissed off. I like to be stealthy and well within the parameters of the law/rules. But in retrospect, it's part of the Ethics rules of our hobby. "Get permission first.". That way I can confidently and politely tell the LEO or anyone else to piss off in my own little subtle yet devastating way. Testing waters was never my fancy. Knowing the rules and following them has always been my forte'. It may sound a little off, but IMHO, why waste the time getting hassled and kicked out when you can be at other sites where there is no problem. Just to prove a point or find out? So you did the correct thing Shade. Better to know beforehand than to be disappointed, or worse, later. You know "Criminal Trespass" is a pretty serious offence. Some Barney Fife out there could just be itching to apprehend a criminal because he may surely be dumb enough to do it, in the case of our hobby. And I've met a lot of Barney Fife's in my lifetime. To those guys, it's just a job to be done, and a feather in "their" cap.

Ed

Don't get me wrong I will never go onto private property without permission but park systems I will play alittle dumb if a ranger or Policeman comes up. When the nosey person comes over ands says " No digging here" I simply smile at them and say yep that would make a mess but I have plugged 14 holes around you can you find one? We don't dig we plug a small hole with a replaceable top 3 people this year said oh ok and walk away. Teach the public and smile while doing it and most people walk on by!

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