This is a great thread. Wish he had more of them, where everyone throws their opinions into the ring, whether it be about metal detecting, or any other related matter. It is the reason communities like this exist. While all of our thoughts/beliefs/opinions/feelings are equal here, they do allow us to maybe see other viewpoints, and helps open up a line of communication with one another.
Shade, glad you got out when the going was good, back in the 80's, as a lot of others weren't so lucky.
Here's a question for you guys...
We all know about the prepper movement. WTSHTF stuff. A lot within that crowd say to have ample amounts of gold & silver on hand, as it'll be the only currency damn near worth anything, if and/or when this country implodes. What's your take on this?
Mine is, yes, everyone should undoubtedly have some reserve of gold & silver, maybe 5 to 10 ounces worth. However, outside of that amount (or something close), not sure it does any good. As others have noted, if the country/economy did indeed implode, would any currency have value? You can't eat precious metals. I think the real currency in a situation like that, would automatically become ammunition & food. That, to me, would be the new currency of value. Of course, I'm not talking about a power outage that lasts a few days, or similar types of short term problems. Rather, I'm talking about a total meltdown scenario. Disaster of epic proportions.
Food, ammunition, shelter, and survivalist skills would be the only things that get someone through, nothing more, IMO. Yes, having some gold & silver on hand to barter with is good, but in terms of having to store vast amounts of it, or it being a be all, end all solution? Not in the slightest.
I ask this because, I see many of these preppers guys hoarding huge amounts of gold & silver. Not for investment purposes (which would kind of make sense), but instead for survival's stake. And I just don't get it. I might be wrong on my position, and I hope we never have to learn the answer firsthand, but it's indeed interesting to ponder what would happen if a total meltdown occurred.
Joe
If you stack 5 or 10 ounces of gold that's a solid start at preserving some of your wealth which is what pms are for,,,if it's 5 or 10 ounces of silver , you might as well hoard ice cream because that's just a pittance. The fly in the ointment for the USA preppers is that they live in the country which holds the worlds reserve currency so the possibility of hyper-inflation in dollar terms is all but impossible without global chaos and the extinction of mankind. We will see inflation but gold and silver becoming a new currency will not occur in our life times. Anything close to the dystropic future that the preppers imagine(and many hope for in their stupidity) would find commodities like booze and cigarettes prized possessions and ammo necessary to try and hold on to it.
Argentina , Weimer Germany and Venezuela won't be happening here as long as the dollar retains it hegemony and the possibility of the dinar or the Chinese money of the day displacing it is about the same as an asteroid strike. The "petrodollar" is a preppers red herring and black market currency with as much viability as the bitcoin.
The FED et al. is firmly in control , don't under estimate them,,,,we're stuck with the buck!!!
I agree with you Dusty in some aspects of Hegemony. But my feelings about the dollar as King are not so akin to being as mighty as you may think. In the long term if there ever is a SHTF scenario and the global economy goes bust, what good is gold and silver if you can't barter with it. I follow the store of value concept with PM's. If the Petrodollar ever does go bust to be replaced with an IMF global currency or a gold backed yuan then maybe, and that's a big question, gold and silver will have some par value of exchange for it which will outreach their current values against the dollar by a hefty amount. I believe that's why a lot of the guys hawking PM's actually say only to have 5 to 10% of your actual net worth in that investment. And not paper GLD or SLV, but in the hand PM's. On the other hand food, water, guns, ammo, sheesh, even TP and the guts and sheer will to survive by being a no nonsense survivalist will be the only way to get through or over a long term crisis like the one professed by so many hawkers. But define long term. Crap, Japan has been going through a crisis for over thirty years. Venezuela maybe over a year. Greece, Cyprus, soon Britain, Spain, Italy and the list goes on. Somewhere along the line there's going to be a reset, the black swan, the day of reckoning. And if it really gets bad, I mean very bad, like riots and neighborhoods burning and "You" as an individual have to hoof it to get to safety with your family, if there would be such a place, how the hell can you do it? I'd often thought that what good are skills and inventory when you get burned out or head for the exits. You can't take everything with you unless you're an armored column with air support! I wouldn't be the only one I'm sure, and the people in the outlying areas, well I don't think they'd be too accommodating to thousands of strangers showing up or passing by. A "Grapes of Wrath" moment.
I look at it this way. Shelter in place. Be as frugal as you can be now and as long as you can if there is such a thing as a meltdown. Biggest problem with that scenario is if it develops into a real riot, when do you sleep, and can the 63 year old wife use a shotgun effectively when you ain't on watch? So I know a lot of folks who bugged out already and are prepared to the nines. They are a generation younger, some have extensive military training, and what makes me wonder is are their mindsets for that concept as real as they suspect or are they being somewhat programmed by the fear mongers? In some cases I think it's a mania, and in others I see real fear.
Whatever comes, comes. We must remember to be somewhat Christian about it. We are our brothers keeper to some extent but not to our own demise. It's a line we walk everyday today without a crisis in our midst. How thin does that line get when something like a meltdown does happen? No one really knows. I see a lot of fiction that could be reality. I see abandoned cars on blocked and crowded highways like scenes on "The Walking Dead". Where do you go to escape? Eventually you find out that nowhere is there an answer. Running away is about as secure as sheltering in place.
If you have a chance, read William F. Engdahl's book "The Lost Hedgemon". It's a well researched and fact packed, depressing history of what the political establishment has done to the USA over the last 100 years to include foreign players from centuries ago. You will get an understanding of what overreach for a nation really means.
Ed
(07-04-2016 06:15 PM)Zachbl92 Wrote: [ -> ]Always wanted to get into precious metals...maybe one day when I have extra $$$
There is never a bad time to invest in PM's, or so they say. You have to learn about averaging out. BTFD. Look that up. After about 10 years I'm averaged out with silver at around $17.00. This type of stuff will never go down the toilet, unless of course there's no one left to trade with. All you have to do is watch the market and buy the dip from a reputable seller. And stick with Canadian Maple Leafs or Silver Eagles. Just the bullion uncirculated stuff. Can you afford $40 or $45 a month? Buy 2 oz. a month. That's 24 oz a year. You're a young man now. When you become my age you may be kicking yourself like I do when I was watching in 2000 when it was $5 an ounce.
And keep detecting. Numismatically you may find a coin worth hundreds or thousands of $. But even the junk coin silver you find, even with the effort involved, is "costless" to the averaging when it comes down to reality.
Never let an opportunity pass you by. A long time ago the richest man in the world said something that has reverberated through history and which many people forget today. He was John D. Rockefeller and he was worth, at that time, 982 million dollars. What he said has import to us today, but in somewhat of another sense in that we are in a spend economy, not a real save economy.
He said, "Ten dimes make a dollar." And every time I find a dime laying on the concrete at the convenient parking lot, I pick it up and remember what he said.
Ed
If it does implode there will be massive amounts of stashes put down before the tragic end of it all.
It's a scary thought - but since the zoombie movies I had thought about the collapse to our taken for granted living these days. Couple that with hundredths of thousands of folks losing there homes due to constant war and no jobs or welfare.
The next thing to hit is not a zoombie apocalypse but a homeless apocalypse.
Hoards old folks walking through your neighborhood in search of food and water and of course shelter at night.
(07-08-2016 07:25 PM)Ohio Dirt Fisher Wrote: [ -> ]Whatever comes, comes. We must remember to be somewhat Christian about it. We are our brothers keeper to some extent but not to our own demise. It's a line we walk everyday today without a crisis in our midst. How thin does that line get when something like a meltdown does happen? No one really knows. I see a lot of fiction that could be reality.
Ed
Makes me think about that classic Twilight Zone episode, where all of the neighbors were having a party, and thought they were being attacked by UFO's. One minute, everyone was picture perfect respectful, and civil as can be. After they heard about impending doom however, they were all fighting with one another to get into the underground bunker, which was only for the man who built it, and his family. They quickly became savages.
It can happen real quick
Joe
Thinking about human nature I don't think that hoarding gold and silver is the answer immediately after whatever the meltdown might be. Those that have fighting skills or lots of ammo and weapons will feel they can take whatever they want. That old might makes right idea will be the law of the land.
Perhaps as things settle down those precious metals could become important.
I gotta agree with Joe , food and the ability to defend yourself would be the things to have.
As for the dollar being the reserve currency , there is a movement by several countries to make the reserve currency into a basket of several other currencies because they believe the dollar is not what it used to be. If that ever does happen the
Excrement will hit the whirling blades quite quickly here.
I just hope it never happens.
Pat
(07-08-2016 09:25 PM)NjNyDigger Wrote: [ -> ] (07-08-2016 07:25 PM)Ohio Dirt Fisher Wrote: [ -> ]Whatever comes, comes. We must remember to be somewhat Christian about it. We are our brothers keeper to some extent but not to our own demise. It's a line we walk everyday today without a crisis in our midst. How thin does that line get when something like a meltdown does happen? No one really knows. I see a lot of fiction that could be reality.
Ed
Makes me think about that classic Twilight Zone episode, where all of the neighbors were having a party, and thought they were being attacked by UFO's. One minute, everyone was picture perfect respectful, and civil as can be. After they heard about impending doom however, they were all fighting with one another to get into the underground bunker, which was only for the man who built it, and his family. They quickly became savages.
It can happen real quick
Joe
Joe,
Yes you are right. About the quickness. I've seen that episode you speak of several times and it makes you wonder. Of course with today's thermonuclear weapons, a shelter of that sort is pretty much a joke as it will be pretty much part of a crater within a 50 mile blast radius. Especially if the neighbors can battering ram the door in. Deep underground bunkers, built by the military in various areas are not part of too much an answer either. With the long term radiation hanging about they'll simply become prisons with dwindling supplies and worn out equipment. So in the long run it's a no win MAD scenario no matter who starts it.
In a situation like that, there are no winners, only losers, and that would be everybody, just for the ideals that we were right, they were right, who was right?.
As far as a financial meltdown is concerned, I see a depression unlike what we remember and have known in the 30's. And if the IMF decides that they have had enough of the USA, Japan and most of the states in the EU, an SDR basket of currencies may default the dollar, yen and euro. If that happens, well the financial war will be at a crescendo where no one has ever seen it. And if that's the case, PM's will also be copper and brass and aluminum too. You have to visualize a world where the dollar loses its kingship. Where other currencies take the lead. Russia, China.... the BRICS are in the planning stages now. The US has been fighting this for a long time. Once since Nixon took us off the Gold standard, and secondly from the meltdown of Lehman. We talk of China and Russia being the biggest liars on the block, but here we are, denying the outcome and lying through our teeth. Twisted reports of job growth, housing starts, crap, you name it. The people in the know look at us in the United States and laugh.
There going to leave us behind to figure it out for ourselves. And we're going to get disturbed in D.C. and start another major war. Because that's all we know how to do to protect Democracy, or the Republic, or CYA!
Ed
ps...Save yourself from all the gloom and doom. Enjoy your life. When the announcement comes, make some lemonade, set out the lawn chairs and enjoy the fireworks. Because in reality, there's nothing else you can do.
Funny, it starting to sound like a third world country is looking good
(07-10-2016 11:11 AM)Digsit Wrote: [ -> ]Thinking about human nature I don't think that hoarding gold and silver is the answer immediately after whatever the meltdown might be. Those that have fighting skills or lots of ammo and weapons will feel they can take whatever they want. That old might makes right idea will be the law of the land.
Perhaps as things settle down those precious metals could become important.
I gotta agree with Joe , food and the ability to defend yourself would be the things to have.
As for the dollar being the reserve currency , there is a movement by several countries to make the reserve currency into a basket of several other currencies because they believe the dollar is not what it used to be. If that ever does happen the
Excrement will hit the whirling blades quite quickly here.
I just hope it never happens.
Pat
My thoughts, exactly. For a short term situation (a few months, maybe), I believe having gold & silver would help a LOT. But if something disastrous happened, where there was long term doom, and a breakdown in society occurred, gold & silver will help little. Hell, the people with arms can simply go and TAKE the precious metals from those that have it. If a total meltdown scenario happened, even if one was able to barter gold or silver, how would the person accepting it redeem it? Think they could just mosey on up to a bank and cash it in? Walk into a pawn shop? What good does it do? I want arms to protect myself, food & water for the long haul, and adequate shelter somewhere in a rural setting.
(07-13-2016 09:11 PM)Ohio Dirt Fisher Wrote: [ -> ] (07-08-2016 09:25 PM)NjNyDigger Wrote: [ -> ] (07-08-2016 07:25 PM)Ohio Dirt Fisher Wrote: [ -> ]Whatever comes, comes. We must remember to be somewhat Christian about it. We are our brothers keeper to some extent but not to our own demise. It's a line we walk everyday today without a crisis in our midst. How thin does that line get when something like a meltdown does happen? No one really knows. I see a lot of fiction that could be reality.
Ed
Makes me think about that classic Twilight Zone episode, where all of the neighbors were having a party, and thought they were being attacked by UFO's. One minute, everyone was picture perfect respectful, and civil as can be. After they heard about impending doom however, they were all fighting with one another to get into the underground bunker, which was only for the man who built it, and his family. They quickly became savages.
It can happen real quick
Joe
Joe,
Yes you are right. About the quickness. I've seen that episode you speak of several times and it makes you wonder. Of course with today's thermonuclear weapons, a shelter of that sort is pretty much a joke as it will be pretty much part of a crater within a 50 mile blast radius. Especially if the neighbors can battering ram the door in. Deep underground bunkers, built by the military in various areas are not part of too much an answer either. With the long term radiation hanging about they'll simply become prisons with dwindling supplies and worn out equipment. So in the long run it's a no win MAD scenario no matter who starts it.
In a situation like that, there are no winners, only losers, and that would be everybody, just for the ideals that we were right, they were right, who was right?.
As far as a financial meltdown is concerned, I see a depression unlike what we remember and have known in the 30's. And if the IMF decides that they have had enough of the USA, Japan and most of the states in the EU, an SDR basket of currencies may default the dollar, yen and euro. If that happens, well the financial war will be at a crescendo where no one has ever seen it. And if that's the case, PM's will also be copper and brass and aluminum too. You have to visualize a world where the dollar loses its kingship. Where other currencies take the lead. Russia, China.... the BRICS are in the planning stages now. The US has been fighting this for a long time. Once since Nixon took us off the Gold standard, and secondly from the meltdown of Lehman. We talk of China and Russia being the biggest liars on the block, but here we are, denying the outcome and lying through our teeth. Twisted reports of job growth, housing starts, crap, you name it. The people in the know look at us in the United States and laugh.
There going to leave us behind to figure it out for ourselves. And we're going to get disturbed in D.C. and start another major war. Because that's all we know how to do to protect Democracy, or the Republic, or CYA!
Ed
ps...Save yourself from all the gloom and doom. Enjoy your life. When the announcement comes, make some lemonade, set out the lawn chairs and enjoy the fireworks. Because in reality, there's nothing else you can do.
I agree. I hope it never comes to fruition, but I believe something big happening is only a matter of time. It mightn't happen soon, but over the course of the next decade or so, it's a very real possibility. Look at the unrest happening now between the different races, between cops and the black community, between hard working citizens and their governments, etc., all the way down the line. The anger and resulting violence seems to be an everyday occurrence. So much so, we have become immune to it. Two court officers were gunned down the other day in Michigan, and I remember thinking; "Heck, that ain't news." Of course, it is, but we're now so used to tragedies happening almost daily of a sizable nature, that it takes a lot to get our attention. My point is...
A lot of this is happening out of anger. Frustration. Yes, many of the people behind these terrible tragedies are simple psycho's, who belong locked up in a cage. But not all of them. Some are good people who are tired of being given the shaft. Look at the situation that occurred with the Bundy's. They weren't perfect people - very few of us are - but they were standing up for something they believed in. Maybe they didn't go about it in the best way, but as the saying goes; "It's sometimes tough to talk sense to an angry man."
In a way, the internet was one of the greatest things that ever happened, as it allows for the free flowing of information very quickly. Which is why Washington wants to put censors on it. If that happens, it's truly over.
I think this coming RNC, as well as the election are going to be critical. A lot is at stake, and people seem to be getting it.
I hope my son can grow up in a peaceful country, one where hard work and honesty is rewarded, and he has all of the opportunities previous generations did. But it doesn't seem to be moving in that direction, at all. Something's gotta change, and soon
Joe